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    Comments

    a rose is a rose

    what, no canoe?

    why do we emulate (sometimes) those that we exclude? (rhetorical)

    Success Warrior

    Rose, they used a canoe the year I was up there. The chosen ones were run down to canoes, tossed in, and paddled out into the darkness, disappearing.

    I never did ask what happens. I didn't care as long as it didn't happen to me. I was just up there to do some hiking, camping, and canoeing.

    I don't know if I ever earned a merit badge, now that I think of it.

    Sister Mary Lisa

    Great post again, Rick. I grew up watching my parents who were deep into scouting, as well as my brothers, who were not, as they struggled to please my dad by going through the motions even though they hated it.

    Incidentally, did you know my husband is a Mason?

    CV Rick

    I had no idea your husband was a mason.

    Order of the Arrow was as close as I ever got to being a mason. I've not had any desire to be in a secret club for many many years.

    mark

    what, what about our club...I mean group...oh, wait...crap...um...

    Sister Mary Lisa

    My father-in-law is a Shrine clown, and a Mason too. My husband has been in it since he first reached adulthood. I've been pressured intensely by my mother-in-law to join Eastern Star, but I won't be doing it.

    Lynx

    Sorry to read this, first of all I'm from Canada and we don't call it the order of the arrow here, but we have something similar and reading your post made me kind of sad. Wath you experienced was obviously a butched ceremony, devoid of its original meaning. Like any other ceremony I believe it can be done the wrong way and loose all its potential, did you know that in France their is actually a law in the criminal code forbiding the scouts to do this kind of ceremony because of a couple of scouts masters who did stupid things instead of the precribed rhite (witch by the way was not like yours but a combination of 10 smaller rhite based on original native ways, by your post I gather you only did one of the ten in a harder fashion than it is supposed to be done). Wath we call here Totemisation (or vaguely translated to receive a totem) is not about a secret society or surviving alone in the woods (or at least it's not suppose to be) it is about marking the begining of adulthood and aknowledging the newly aquired maturity of a teenager who is ready to assume more responsability and to work on himself to better himself (hence the quality one must acquire witch is given with the animal name). I see why some might see it as a stupid innitiation (like one of a hockey team or else) but having been through one such a ceremony in my younger years and beeing a scout master who conduct those ceremony (in a responsible and educative way mind you, to honour those ancient traditions and to explain them carefully to the teenagers, not to play indians or to parody those rhites) I believe, if well done, it can be a special experience comparable to no others in our modern world.

    Lynx

    CV Rick

    I understand the sentiment, Lynx. And I appreciate it. But to tell you the truth, I'm more than a little concerned that you're a scout master, influencing kids. Maybe it's the spelling.

    brian smith

    the OA is not about being in the wood for a day and a half. Its a Brotherhood of cherful campers. and besinds thats not what happens on a ordeal.

    CV Rick

    Brian, you don't know how to spell. You probably aren't smart enough to read my post either. I was there, it's what happened, and it's what OA is about. Go back to school, learn to read, write, spell, then return to discuss.

    Tim

    As a former Lodge Chief of an Order of the Arrow Lodge, I am disgusted with your Ordeal experience. It appears that the Lodge that performed your induction has no idea the impact that a poorly executed Ordeal has on its members. You are not wrong for the views you have on the Order of the Arrow after such an experience. I would have also felt the same.

    Fortunately, my Ordeal ceremony, along with my Brotherhood and Vigil ceremonies, have been wonderful experiences that I will cherish for the rest of my life. The Order of the Arrow has taught me the value of service towards fellow man, the importance of remaining cheerful through hard tasks, and it has granted me many life-long friends who all embrace the true value of the society.

    There is no doubt that a properly executed ceremony, performed by Arrowmen that appreciate the OA as much as I and so many others do (and adhere to strict National Guidlines concerning Ceremonies, would have changed your views on the program.

    Thunder

    Lynx,
    I totally agree with you. I am a Native American Indian and also very much involved with Scouting and the Order of the Arrow as well. Whomever was in charge of your ceremony, Evidentally knew nothing of the OA and its principles. That was a botched attempt at one part. It should be done with respect to our ancestors and using hand made wears. The Order also has nothing to do with masonic rituals. If you get right down to it, you can tie almost any groups together. If you try hard enough you can tie Christianity to Masonic rituals. People should really know what they are talking about before making posts such as some of the ones ive read recently. For none of us have any right to judge another for what we do except our Creator above. We eventually will all have to stand before him when our time comes. Until then leave the judging and ridicule to him alone.
    Thunder

    Brian

    I'm in the unenviable position of having never been a Scout (forbidden by my parents because of their local affiliations to the KKK at that time) but having to endure my step-son who has gone from being a Cub Scout to being a Boy Scout. So far, BSA has done nothing for him but

    I am not a Native American, but I was quite insulted by the Crossover Ceremony by the OA's when he transferred from Cub's. It was an embarrassing display of hokey made up lore. It was bad enough in Cub Scouting, but this was laughable.

    I'm not impressed with BSA to begin with, so this sub-culture thing raises the my "danger" sign. Generally, I view secret societies as something to walk away from at a brisk pace. Thanks for the view into OA.

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