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    « Louise Erdrich Has Principles | Main | My Boy Scout Summer: Order of the Arrow »


    a rose is a rose

    i've said it before and i shall say it again, i don't know ANYONE who didn't come from some type of dysfunctional family. there never was an ozzie and harriet in real life

    that said, i can't imagine not having real friends as a child. i'm older (JUST a bit) than you are rick but i still remember my best friend in first grade (where i went to catholic school i'll add). i had friends. we played outside till it got dark. we went over each other's houses. we lived in a neighborhood with REAL NEIGHBORS. damn, a kid has got to be a kid!


    Being a Mormon sounds like a giant pain in the ass.

    Tim Mulcahy

    So do you think Mit Romney just might be a bit out of touch with main stream America?


    heh..."religious addiction"...why does that strike me as funny yet sad?

    Sister Mary Lisa

    My mother bought a set of music tapes sung by primary kids once, and would play it on Sunday mornings in a futile effort to invite The Spiritâ„¢ into our home before church...

    The song I'm remembering from those tapes went something like this:

    "I'm a Mormon, yes I am...And if you'd like to study a Mormon I'm a living spec-i-men...And if you think I'm just like anybody else, you'll see I've studied the Word, you'll think me absurd, I'm different as can be. I'm a Mormon, through and through, and if you think that I am peculiar in the things I say and do.......blah blah blah....blah blah blah....Maybe you'd like to study about the things that I know are TRUUUUE, and YOU CAN BE A MORMON TOO!"

    Why, yes, we marched around the living room singing along. Why do you ask?

    I think it's great how your memories spur memories of my own, Rick. Good times, good times.

    CV Rick

    Tim, There is no possibility that Romney has even a remote inkling what mainstream America is about. There is also no possibility that he respects any type of Church/State separation.

    Rose, Mormon kids don't get to be kids . . . they merely get to be indoctrinated.

    Mark, I think Religious Addiction will be the topic of my next Growing Up Mormon post.

    Cherise, should you meet any Mormons, look upon the children with pity.

    SML . . . ewwwww----primary songs . . . bleh, yuck, phooey.

    Sister Mary Lisa

    Rick, the thing is, those tapes weren't primary songs, more of a popular fad-type purchase that my mom bought into, much like the family home evening idea books that are so popular today. And I've been in primary so much in the past few years that I could teach you many songs. Have you heard, "Follow the Prophet" yet?? Ugh.

    CV Rick

    FHE idea books littered a couple of sagging pressboard shelves in my dad's basement. And those were from the 70's and 80's.

    I've been completely out of any Mormon interaction for over a decade, so new primary songs are about as appealing as being put in one of Bush/Cheney's torture prisons.


    SML - Please tell me that your family really DIDN'T march around and sing that song?

    Holy. Mother. Of. Gawd.

    Sister Mary Lisa

    Sideon, my dear, it's true. How the hell else would I know every word, 25 years later??

    It's embarrassing, but I've been known to share embarrassing stuff before. It's why you love me.

    C. L. Hanson

    Hey Ninja Writer -- I'd be curious to have your feedback on some of the stories I've written based on my own experiences growing up in that peculiar culture: Young Women's and Youth Conference. By coincidence, the story even touches on the same song that Sister Mary Lisa quoted... ;)

    Sister Mary Lisa

    Are you serious, Chanson? Oh, and HI too! I hadn't gotten to the point yet in your story about that song! I'll have to check it out! :) Good to see you over here at Rick's...


    SML - We had that same tape, and because of *you* I've been singing it, drat it all.

    I remember the "I want to be a missionary now, I don't want to wait until I'm grown...to testify of the (something something something)"

    But one of my favorites was "When I grow up, I want to be a mother, and have a family, 1 little 2 little 3 little babies of my own." She eventually has "six little blessings from above" and will"cuddle them all day long and give them cookies and milk and yellow balloons, and comfort them when things go wrong and read them stories and sing them pretty tunes"

    And just now I totally understand my sense of guilt for only having four kids. I grew up knowing six was the perfect number (we had six kids, too), and right now that makes me *so mad*. Where was the instruction to grow up and live a little before you have those six kids?? What about instructions on being able to support those "little blessings from above"? Damn.

    I didn't mean to rant, you just brought back some very vivid memories.

    Jonathan K

    This may have been your experience, but just like all generalizations, your experience doesn't apply to all.

    "every active Mormon is swept up in an obsessive community of belief and activity." - I am not.

    "There are no Mormons with free time." - I have plenty of free time.

    "You have to go to three standard meetings every Sunday. You have to go to at least a couple during the week...You have to spend Mondays getting in fights with your family members at Family Home Evening...you have to make time for Home Teachers...you have to go out on those visits to other member's homes." - I don't have to do any of these things.

    "You won't find Mormon families socializing in your neighborhood" - I socialize in my neighborhood.

    "Because of that I never had close friendships growing up." - I had many close friendships growing up - both in and out of the church.

    If you don't like the church, that's fine, but please don't imply your experience represents every mormon.

    -jonathan, grown up and mormon

    CV Rick

    Oh, Jonathon . . . poor Jonathon

    My experiences are representative . . . I'm afraid yours aren't. I have a very large family, almost all living right in the Utah-Idaho Morridor. I have dozens of friends and acquaintances living in that area also. I have hundreds of people who grew up Mormon who directly relate to what I've written and remark about how accurate it is with their own experiences. You have yourself. Enjoy yourself, but not too much or you'll lose your temple recommend.

    Jonathan K

    You're right, I have myself. Isn't that all any of us has? I spent some time reading through your other posts. You have posted some really sad and painful experiences that are touching and, at times, very painful to read. However, the saddest thing to me is that you have chosen to place the blame of these experiences in your life on all Mormons vicariously, as if I personally have done some wrong to you because I am a Mormon. Your sweeping generalizations and hostility towards Mormons show a lack of tolerance - as if all Mormons are the same - just because you and your family are a certain way. Granted, I am not from Utah or Idaho, but your generalizations above are no more correct than saying that all Hispanics are illegals, or all Muslims are terrorists, etc.

    CV Rick

    That's where you're wrong, Jonathon. That's where you are wishing things weren't as they are. The fact of the matter is that I've never been a Hispanic Illegal or a Muslim Terrorist. I have, however, been a Mormon. As such, my experiences are directly to the core of what it means to be a Mormon. I talk about how the members are treated, and while it's true that one's experience differs from person to person, ward to ward, stake to stake, the one central core is a universally accepted Doctrine. And that doctrine is the source of the problems I describe in these personal stories. Mormons do, at the central revelation of the founding prophets, believe that race is a matter of pre-ordained punishment for actions relating to the war in heaven. Mormons do believe that brown skin is a curse. Mormons do believe that homosexual acts are unspeakably grave sins. Mormons do believe in a militant response to external forces. Mormons do believe that a man must have a plurality of marriages in order to achieve the highest glory of the Celestial Kingdom.

    It's these beliefs that are the core of the treatment I received and witnessed as a Mormon child, young adult, and adult. It's adherence to a sacred doctrine, secretly revealed as one climbs ranks of worthiness that's the basis for abuse. It's not sweeping generalizations you're experiencing, Jonathon, it's the basic tenants of your belief system taken to the individual impacts that offends you. When it's a doctrine, that's one thing, but when it's personal and accurate, that hurts. I understand that, Jonathon. I really do. It'd probably be better for you if you didn't hang out here because the one thing that my stories will do is stay with you and cause doubts. That's the one thing your church fears most of all . . . doubt.

    The saddest thing isn't where I CHOSE to assign blame . . . the saddest thing is that this church of yours refuses to accept responsibility.


    Too bad you never decided to become a Christian. Mormon Christians have a lot more fun and are easier to get along with.

    CV Rick

    Decide to become a Christian? Huh? Decide to go about willingly believing in a false mythology designed to placate people and offer authoritarian control. No thanks. I'm not a lamb.


    Stubbled across this blog. I grew up a Jehovah's Witness. Felt like I was reading from my own childhood. I'm overwhelmed with memories that were safely tucked away.


    ... that would be 'stumbled'


    I'm glad to have you read my blog, Dinah. I hope you are more free and have grown away from the Jehovah's Witnesses.


    If you've yet to join the conversation re X-Mormon of the Year over at Main Street Plaza, this here is your official invite! ( And all apologies for this spamalicious OT comment ! )


    Well, this blog does indeed look like my cup of tea. Thanks for telling me about it. I'll be reading through the archives when I'm not doing homework.

    Christine Hendrix

    This way of growing up sounds like hell on earth. No friends, no participation in sports, just a lot of fake "make work". In the real world kids learn by having many friends of all colors, faiths, and degrees of intelligence. Without this they will have major problems in the workplace. We know a lot of Mormon kids who don't live the way you described it. They seem very happy and free to be kids.

    There's absolutely no harm in letting be kids. That includes riding their bicycles on a nice Sunday afternoon.



    You are correct on all accounts...being a Mormon is HELL...it is a terrible way to live and is designed to do nothing more than control a population of people. All free thinking of the individual is removed and discouraged, only to be replaced with an occult mindset designed by generations of a handful of men. If a true "outline" of what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints actually believed in was in print circulation, the majority of people in the the United States would be shocked and appalled!

    Thank you for creating this blog!


    Right, you should view your own slliks in high regard. Isn't self-confidence paramount?What I was trying to say was social media is inherently transparent. You can't expose something that's already in the open.As for the irony of the ad and "MormonTV", well, I think that the definition of what constitutes television is really starting to change. We debated this in a course in my program this past summer - is a TV show still a "TV show" if you watch it on Hulu, for example? Probably, but the venue has changed. Still, nobody is going to call Hulu television just like no one is going to call television Hulu. Nevertheless, the lines are blurring. In any case, people still recognize the difference in delivery method, so, with all of that in mind, it's nothing significant for anyone to label their YouTube channel with "TV" as part of their name. I don't think most people would confuse "MormonTV" for actual television (despite the morphology of mediums taking place today). Moreover, I think most people would understand that the ad stating not to believe in what they've seen on television is in reference to actual over-the-air broadcast and cable TV, considering that the ad directs people to a web-based delivery platform.This is just another exercise in semantics.


    Ross,After reading your most rneect installment on this topic of transition out of mormonism, I have to say you are right about the local body of Christ having little understanding of what it means for a former mormon to leave the LDS and to embrace biblical christianity.I am so thankful for my own church, that has been a huge support to me thru this time of change in my life. They have made big efforts to answer my questions on doctrine, and patiently have held my hand many times thru tearful challenges with my still LDS husband. They have stood in the gap many a time and prayed for me and my family.God truly has led me to a body of believers that live out the Christian faith in such a beautiful way. They are not perfect people, but truly people sold out for the lord nd willing to stand in the gap. I only wish other former mormons could have the same.God bless,gloria


    Bill, #69, ha ha ha. Running a country, and all the canibet level departments, especially the really important ones, is far more complicated and a whole nuther animal, than a political campaign.The _team_ I was talking about was not necessarily his campaign team, but all his appointments for his administration, from his chief-of-staff on down, and the canibet level appointments, and all their people they are going to put in position.There are hundreds of people that a new president has to put into place, and those people are then in charge of hiring/appointment many more who are still outside of the civil-service positions.In other words, who are going to be his Cheneys, Rices, etc?And , Obama is _not_ that smart. He's got charisma, and a good campaign manager and _campaign_ staff, but smarts, in terms of intellect and knowledge, no.And Hillary is not all that bad-looking or fat for a woman her age. She's better looking than most single women her age that I know. Most single women in the church who are her age are fatter.I'm really really torn. I'm a die-hard conservative, and I'm seriously tempted to vote democrat in the general election, just so Republicans don't get the blame for the mess we're going to have in the next 4 years.Wouldn't be ironic if many democrats voted republican for same reasoning?Hmmm, would it be too morbid to hope that Romney is McCain's running mate, they win the general election, and then McCain soon throws one of his temper-trantrums and pops a blood-vessel in his brain?


    This is from a recent speceh by Michelle Obama: Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed. and You have to stay at the seat at the table of democracy with a man like Barack Obama not just on Tuesday but in a year from now, in four years from now, in eights years from now, you will have to be engaged. Is it just me, or does this remind anyone else of Eva Peron? I remember the lines from the musical. Eva is giving a speceh: (Eva:)Now I am a worker, I've suffered the way that you doI've been unemployed, and I've starved and I've hated it tooBut I found my salvation in Peron, may the nationLet him save them as he saved me(All:)A new Argentina, a new age about to beginA new Argentina, we face the world togetherAnd no dissent within(Eva:)Peron has resigned from the army and this we avowThe descamisados are those he is marching with nowHe supports you, for he loves youUnderstands you, is one of youIf not, how could he love me?(All:)A new Argentina, the chains of the masses untiedA new Argentina, the voice of the peopleCannot be, and must not be denied


    Catch is, apparently deeffrint wards have it on deeffrint dates twice a year. We had our October fast sunday the week before General Conference, but other folks talked about having a meal as part of the General RS meeting, which I gather means having fast sunday the week AFTER conference.


    DKL,#157,Margaret, whether smneooe is a hawk or not is beside the point. Everybody wants the war in Iraq to end. The question is on what terms. I want victory. Obama wants defeat.Heh, you couldn't take victory when it was handed to you in 2003. You had to stick around and mess things up. No, you don't want victory. You want occupation. If things improve, you'll argue that we should stay just so that things don't get bad again. If things do not improve, you'll argue that we should stay because things are bad and we should try to improve them. You don't seem to realize that WE are the problem in Iraq. WE are the reason for the violence. If we leave, the violence leaves with us. But see, war supporters know this. They know that the violence goes wherever we go. So why bring the violence here? It doesn't make sense to bring the violence home. Let's take the violence to others. So, in the words of Thomas Friedman, you go around in Iraq, and later in Iran, because you can. Suck on this. you will say to them. Break that bubble of theirs. Because you can. Not because we should. Not because it is prudent, or a wise foreign policy, but because we want to flex those muscles of ours. After all, a weapon unused is a useless weapon. Silly ideology I tell you.


    I think the Clintons (and perhaps most of their team) are evil, but are cotenmept at running things in government. They've done it before. It's not just Hillary that we'd be electing, it's her whole team, which I assume is going to be pretty much like the team Bill had running things.I think Obama is more well-meaning, perhaps more altruistic, but he and his team will be incotenmept at running things.I am reminded that it can often be better if congress passes no new laws. That deadlock in government is usually a _good thing_. It can be better to do nothing than to do something that screws things up more.The questions then becomes: Do I want someone in office who I believe will be cotenmept at implementing the very things I don't want, such as socialism and statism? Or do I want an incotenmept idealistic demagogue (perhaps a little like Jimmy Carter) in the white house? As a country, we seem to have collectively lost our memory about the Carter years and the Clinton years. Maybe four years of a disastrous Obama administration will bring this country back to its senses.However, if national defense is the number one priority, subsuming all others, I'd have to give the hat-tip to Hillary. She's not as deluded about international terrorism as Obama is.

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